Would an Espionage bonus also be appropriate to the Xeoplites? They were shown as very similar to the Yridiians, IIRC.

Yaderan Holoemitters - +10% Industry, +1 morale
I figure that this ties in nicely with the old construction tech - one of which was looking at the use of holoconstruction as they can be reconfigured really quickly. THe morale is obvious...

I don't know if anyone has suggested this before, but I just thought of this...

Why do we need special buildings to get a species' bonuses? Vulcans will always be logical and academically inclined, with many excellent scientists, with or without the Vulcan Science Academy! I would like to see the special structure either maximizing the race's advantages, or making that advantage available for the entire empire.

So, to use the Vulcans as the example, you encounter them, and are told that the race's bonus is scientific research, and maybe improved diplomacy. So if you admit the Vulcans into the Federation, or conquer them or whatever, as soon as their morale returns to normal, you start to get their bonuses whether or not you have a structure in place. I think that this makes more sense, and would provide incentives for peaceful expansion, since you wouldn't have to fight with their morale. Once you build the special structure, if they are conquered, you get the full species bonus, if they peacefully join you, you get the full bonus plus the intrinsic racial advantages. Does that make sense?

So, continuing, suppose the Vulcans join you, and their bonuses are +15% research and +10% positive diplomacy (just to make some figures up). Because the diplomacy would be based on Vulcan members of the diplomatic corps, and you get those as soon as they join, the diplomatic bonus appears immediately. On Vulcan, the species has a research bonus, so every labratory you build there puts out +15% extra research (kind of like a resource bonus). Once you build the Science Academy, that 15% becomes an empire-wide advantage.

So a scientifically oriented race would have a natural bonus for science structures, a warlike race might have a weapons research bonus, or a defensive bonus for all defensive installations you build, an intelligence-gathering race would have a natural bonus for intel structures, and an economically oriented race would have a natural bonus in trade goods or income off of trade routes, more tax revenue, etc. You see where I'm going, here?

The 'special structures' would only serve to either make the advantage empire-wide or improve it still further.

Another thought about that....If you wait long enough, why couldn't they build their special structures before you admit them? Not in every case, but with really advanced minors....?

Make any sense at all?

This is from way back, but I just watched the Morn DS9 episode, and got to thinking....

The Lurians are not only peaceful and effective business-beings, but also very clever. Suppose their advantage could include some sort of raid resistance? Just a thought.

Now that I've thought about it more..... I also think that Vulcans should have both a scientific and a diplomatic advantage! I don't know if it was mentioned or not, but I think its....logical

Jarok, your ideas are logical (As a Romulan, I can't believe I just said that word)

I don't know if it would be a bit too late implement them though. You really should get in touch with Gavin about that, he's the one who would sort it out, the only problem is that he isn't responding to PM's. You could always try email, but I don't know how often he checks his emails.

...

Have we really decided 200+ structures though? It doesn't seem like it! 8O

I would like to see a list of the structures and bonuses like you said Huntingdon - remember that we said we would possibly give some races two structures, but we'd decide the 'extra' ones at the end? (Like the Bajorans Temple and/or Pah Wraith Caverns)

Well it's the end...

^Do you remember where the A-C structures were listed? Try as I might I can't find that thread. Nor do I know which races were getting two structures, so it would help if you remember.

Other than that I am happy to compile the list. 200 does seem to have gone quickly.

The only place A-C is is in the Administrator forum, Iwulff put it there. Since non-admin can't access it, u'll have to ask Jig, Iwulff, or Gavin to get it for you.

Okay. Have sent a pm to jig...

Meanwhile - what about the suggested Z races? Yay or nay?

they sound good

I'd be happy to make up some small text for them, with input from others.

I'm just waiting on a response from jig for the earlier races.

It might be an idea to look at which races give multiple bonuses - some that give offence and defence bonuses, for instane - and then use them as the multiple structure races. The Vulcans have both science and Govt Tech, so you get the science academy and the Vulcan Embassy, for instance.

Well that would work perfectly!

We wouldn't need to think of new bonuses then, and it wouldn't unbalance all the stuff we have come up with so far.

There is a bit of a problem with the fact that we said that (At least some) of the structures were a 'one thing or the other' affair, not both. (Like you could only have either the Bajoran Temple or the Pah Wraith Caverns, not both.

Of course, people would likely mod this out as soon as they get the game, so I don't agree with it. I like the idea of choice, but i'd also want both bonuses!

I'd give you input on the descriptions of the structures if you (Or someone else) does them, Huntingdon. I imagine it would be easier to do the structures than the actual races anyway, since you can base it on the completed race descriptions or do it as a description of the structures' bonus.

It doesn't need to be too long either.

I'm enjoying the idea of both inherent bonuses and structure-related bonuses, since that should better capture the flavor of each species. It would be cool if some of the races at least could have an either/or option, but that's not really essential for the initial release, like you all have said.

I'd be more than happy to lend a hand in writing descriptions of any races, structures, ships... I'm an English major, and I can send samples of my writing if you guys would like to see what I do beforehand. If nothing else, I could be good for editing and/or proofreading. Just PM me or EMAIL me at longshotsky@aol.com if you guys would like any of my services.

Anyhow, sounds great!

I opened this thread, so that we can discuss the matter of which race gets which type/kind of building, with bonuses that comes with the package. Jigalypuff is namely busy with these buildings, and he needs at least some indication of who gets what. We will first begin with the top 10 then going to the bottom. I will constantly update the decisions we made in this post. I don't know which races we already discussed for this, so people remind me when we did. I also put the discriptions for these races with them, so that you have some idea what we are talking about. I don't want to many noncense in this thread, these matters are needed for the development of the game.

Jigalypuff you can edit pictures of your buildings in, when you want to.

Acamarian
Special building = Supreme Clan Coöperative or Sovereign's Palace
Bonus = Officers Bonus (undecided yet) or +2 morale on Acamar



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quote:
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The Acamarian species is a space faring race, with a somewhat violent past. The Acamarian culture is based around clans and these are considered of great social and political importance, although many conflicts between the various clans have turned into wars. The Acamarians have a government which is headed by a Sovereign. But the Acamarian race seems to become more friendly over the years, although they still rely on strong weapon technology. Acamarian ships are capable warships and are more then qualified enough to defend the Acamarians against most threats.
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Akaali
Special building = Agriculture Wind Mill
Bonus = +25% food


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quote:
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The Akaali have a pre-industrial society based on a M-class planet. It is obvious that it would take a few more centuries before this race is capable of warp-flight. They are frightened for alien species and first contact should be carefully made. The Akaali are a friendly race, and are somewhat more developed in farming and medical treatments. Overall the Akaali don’t have much to offer to us, perhaps with assistance from us, they could grow into a part of our empire.
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Algolian
Special building = Algolian Ampitheatre
Bonus = +1 moral empire wide


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quote:
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The Algolians are a humanoid race distinguished by their golden leathery skin and the small circular openings around their head. They originate from the Algol system. They have technology that is up to par with most races. They possess the technology for spaceflight, although they rarely use it. They are well known for the ceremonial music that they play at special occasions. They are usually a friendly and peaceful people.
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Andorian
Special building = Andorian War College
Bonus = Officers (undecided yet)

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quote:
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Andorians are a race with a somewhat aggressive nature. They have a talented military arm, called the Andorian Imperial Guard. The Andorians are capable diplomats, and they expect others to stay true to their words. Andorians are a race that have a good bond with its nature and surroundings and they are deeply emotional and passionate. Their ships are heavily armed, which makes up for the slightly weaker defences. Andorians are also highly territorial, so do not enter their space without permission. You should never dishonour them, because this is a reason for the Andorians to go into war.
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Angosians
Special building = Angosian Cloning Barracks/Facility
Bonus = +50% ground combat effectiveness

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quote:
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Angosians are considered to be a peaceful race, but they have been responsible for the genetically and chemically engineered soldiers used for their wars. These soldiers are now outcasts and couldn't function in the Angosian society, and therefore were imprisoned on an Angosian moon. Angosians have limited technology, and have only barely reached warp technology. Their ships they use are weak and mostly used for transport and exploration.
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Antedeans
Special building = Ocean Gathering Device
Bonus = + 100 food?

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quote:
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Antedeans are a fishlike species, inhabited of a oceanic planet with nearly no land. The technological level of the Antedeans is surprising, given the limited resources and their lifestyle. They are capable of space flight, but they find it extremely traumatic and can only survive this by entering into a catatonic state. At the end of a journey, Antedeans require large amounts of food. They seem to be somewhat doubtful towards the motives of humanoid species, and therefore prefer to isolate themselves. They prefer to remain on their home world, because they aren't capable of defending themselves when in space.
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Anticans
Special building = Antican Combat Academy
Bonus = +35% ground combat

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quote:
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The Anticans are large, furry humanoid species from the planet Antica. Anticans are a carnivorous species who prefer to eat their meat alive. The Anticans species have the technology for interstellar spaceflight for a century and have explored the galaxy ever since. The Articans are a somewhat advanced species, who have been in war with the Selay for quite some time. They often regard the customs of other races to be barbaric and foolish. Because of their regard towards other races, they are somewhat difficult in diplomatic talks.
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Arbazan
Special building = Arbazan Military Finance Ministry
Bonus = +10% ship construcion speed


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quote:
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The Arbazan are a highly conservative semi-humanoid race from the planet Arbaza. A feature of the Arbazans is a vestigial ridge along the eyebrows and nose. They are looked on by others as sexually repressed and are often given bureaucratic and research jobs, which they enjoy. They are very easy to offend and are considered by many to be arrogant, complicating diplomacy.
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Argrathi
Special building = Prison of the mind
Bonus = +1 moral system only

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quote:
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The Argrathi are a humanoid race who are prone to suspicion. They are ruled by the Argrathi Authority, who punish people by implanting virtual memories a prison stay into them with no actual time passing and eliminating the need for prisons. They have an average technology level. Their suspicion and paranoia causes many people who are simply asking curious questions to be imprisoned.
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Argrathi

the argathi system of punisment is so well defined that the people rejoice
that they no longer have to pay to keep these parasitic crimanels in prison.

Axanar
Special building = ??
Bonus = ??

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quote:
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The Axanar are a highly intelligent spacefaring race. Their species are androgynous, have life spans of 400 years. They breathe a nitrogen-methane atmosphere and live in cold environments. The Axanar ships have advanced weaponry and advanced technology. Although the Axanar are usually friendly, they will defend themselves if in danger.
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_________________
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end." -- Spock (Star Trek VI)

Q: The trial never ended. We never reached a verdict. But now we have. You're guilty. Picard: Guilty of what? Q:Of being inferior.

Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:16 pm

iwulff
Newbie



Joined: Sep 18, 2004
Posts: 1728
Location: Germany Re: Special buildings for minors

B
Bajoran
Special Building : Temple of the prophes
Bonus : +1 moral empire wide (seems good to me)



Perhaps we could do something else:

Pah Wraith Fire Caverns: +10% orbital defences, empire wide.
Tears of the Prophets: +1 moral empire wide.

Baku
Special Building : Ba'ku Metaphasic Spas
Bonus : +10% growth rate empire wide. This means a system with 3.5% growth rate per turn, with get 3.5+0.35=3.85% growth rate.

Bandi
Special Building : Trade emporium
Bonus : +2 traderoutes for the system? Or perhaps a 50% increase of traderoute>

Baneans
Special Building : Forced Memory Punishment
Bonus : Moral always stays on normal on this system. (perhaps something else?)

Barzan
Special Building : The Barzen toxic refinery
Bonus : -1 morale, +300 credits income



Benzites
Special Building: Benzite Industrial Center
Bonus : +60% Industry

Betazoids
Special Building :Betazoid Counceling Academy
Bonus : +50% Internal Security

Bolians
Special Building : Bank of Bolias
Bonus : +10% credits empire wide

Boslics
Special Building : Boslic Trade Confederation
Bonus : +25% trade credits, system only.

Bothan
Special Building :Bothan Telepathic War Room
Bonus : + 75% Planetary Defense, system only

Breen
Special Building : Breen Tactical College
Bonus : +25 ship expirience +40 officers/turn

Bre'ellians
Special Building : Bre'ellian Orbital Research Facility
Bonus : +25% defence against global events, system only.

Bynars
Special Building : Planetary Supercomputer
Bonus : +100% computer research

^Great. Thanks Jig!

Please read the notes at the end and tell me if they make sense. I've not heard back from Gavin about the feasibility of customised bonuses, as for the Bre'ellians and Baneans.

We still need a bonus for the Axanar. I would suggest a Deuterium bonus, as the rarest bonus. This makes sense given their atmosphere - Axanar Atmospheric Regulator?


Breakdown by bonus (some still not finalised):


+Food
Akaali
Antedeans
Evorans
Mintakans
Ocampa
Trabe
Xyrillians

+Sabotague
Excalbians
Flaxians
Krenim
Ktarian
Nyrian
Medusans
Orions
Parada
Suliban
Vorgon
Yridians

+Espionage
El Aurians
Orions
Suliban
Species 116
Talosians
Ullians
Xeoplites
Yridians

+trade route
Bandi
Corvallans
Evora
Ferengi
Karemma
Lurian

+trade credits
Boslics
Dosi
Hupyrians
Karemma
Xeoplites
Zibalians

+morale
Algolian
Argrathi
Bajorans
Baneans
Deltans
Edo
Kantare
J'Naii
Mizarians
Menk
Risans
Talosians
Vhnori
Wadi
Valakians
Yaderan

-morale (forced labor things)
Barzan
Capellans
Dremans
Trabe
Zalkonians

+Raw Materials
Barzan
Capellans
Horta
Zibalians

+Deuterium
Axanar
Malon

+Dilithium
Coridans
Dremans

+Credits
Bolians
Ferengi
Ornarans
Wadi
Xeoplites

+Internal Security
Betazoids
Cairn
Rakosans
Species 116

+officers
Acamarians
Andorians
Anticans
Breen
Iconnu
Miradorn
Selay
Vaadwur
Xyrillians
Zakdorn

+Ship Experience
Andorians
Breen
Kazon
Zakdorn

+Construction Tech
Arbazan
Tellarites
Voth

+Ground Defense
Angosians
Anticans
Bothans
Gorn
Hazari
Kazon
Markalian
Nausicaans
Selay
The Swarm
Talarians
Vori

+Resistance to Bribery
Cairn
Halkans

+Defense Tech
Bre'ellians
Chalnoth?
Cheronians
Halanans
Mokra
T'Lani

+Industry
Benzites
Kaeolon
J'Naii
Yaderan

+Social Tech
Denobulans - bonus to medical buildings
Elaysians - poss. govt tech?
Grazerites
Kantare
Menk
Risans
Ventaxians
Valakians
Zalkonians

+Offense Tech
Chalnoth
Cheronians
Haakonians
Kellerun
Mokra
Night Race
Sona
Tholians
Vaadwur
Xindi

+Growth Rate
Baku
Bre'ellians
Deltans
Xyrillians

+Scan Range
El Aurians
Hirogen
Medusans
Siakarans

+Energy Tech
Coridans - listed as propulsion!
Hakkonians
Hekarans - Propulsion
Kaelon
Malcorians
Meridian
The Swarm
Takarans
Tholians

+All Research
Bynars
Caldonians
Pakleds
Sheliak
Tamarians
Trill
Vidiians
Vulcans
Zahl

+Ground Offense
Angosians
Dopterians
Hazari
Nak'hul
Nausicaans
Suliban
Xindi

+Government Tech
Kreetassans
Species 116
Vulcans

Notes:
1. As before - any medical bonuses are listed under Social Tech.
2. As before - any propulsion Tech bonuses are listed under Energy Tech
3. Where more than one option was given I have listed the most popular choice or, where there was no consensus, the one that was least represented by other races e.g Acamarians Officers/Morale = Officers.
4. Some bonuses are empire-wide, others are system specific. This is identified in the bonus description posted later.
5. The Axanar have no bonus currently assigned.
6. I switched the Barzan bonus from credits to Raw Materials, due to the description and balancing.
7. I matched the Antican bonus with the Selay, since they seem equally opposed.
8. The Bre'ellians should get a bonus against Global disasters - I've translated this into Defence tech (make this minor bonus?) and Growth rate.
9. Bynar bonus is computers - I've translated it into All Research for the moment (computers assist simulations...)

Having read the Intelligence thread, I think there is room to make some of the sabotage and espionage bonuses specialist - the four areas being: economic; political; military; scientific.

For instance:
Scientific Sabotage:
Medusans
Vorgon

Political Sabotage:
Flaxians
Parada

Economic Sabotage:
Orions
Yridians

Military Sabotage:
Krenim
Suliban

General Sabotage:
Excalbians
Ktarians
Nyrian

Espionage:
Political:
El-Aurians

Economic:
Orions
Xepolites
Yridians


Scientific:
Ullians

Military:
Suliban
Talosians

General:
Species 116

I've perhaps gone over the top with assigning specialities, but does that strike people as a good idea, or a bad one?

Another installment, since this thread has been stagnant for a little while and this needs to be attended to. Let me know what you all think.

The Antican description by Huntingdon, above, works very well.


Arbazan Military Finance Ministry
Bonus = +10% ship construcion speed

The Military Finance Ministry is a model of efficient resource allocation and labor coordination. The Arbazan penchant for organization has fine-tuned these processes into a form of art, streamlining the lengthy process of starship construction considerably.


Argrathi Prison of the Mind
Bonus = +1 moral system only

Although unusual, there is no doubt that the Argrathi technique of memory implantation is the keystone of Argrathi justice. This system of virtual punishment has served as such a deterrent to criminals that their world now reaps the benefits of security and order among the populace.
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Axanar Atmospheric Regulator
Bonus = + Deuterium

The unusual biology of the Axanar requires highly specific atmospheric conditions. Unfortunately for their spacefaring ambitions, these conditions are very rare beyond their homeworld. The Atmospheric Regulators alter the atmosphere on other planets to be suitable for Axanar habitation. Fortunately, the regulation process produces elemental deuterium in abundance.
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Bajoran Temple of the prophets
Bonus : +1 moral empire wide

The Bajorans have a fine tradition of arts and culture, although much of this was repressed during their recent occupation at the hands of the Cardassians. However, the Bajoran religion guides every aspect of their society and is once again inspiring the Bajorans to revitalize the former glory of Bajor. The Bajoran temple is a tremendous source of this inspiration.
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Ba'ku Metaphasic Spas
Bonus : +10% growth rate empire wide.

The metaphasic radiation concentrated in the rings of Ba'ku has long provided the planet's inhabitants with a virtual fountain of youth, rejeuvenating and refreshing the population's minds and bodies. Facilities such as the Metaphasic Spas make this wondrous phenomenon available to travellers from across the galaxy, improving lifespans considerably.
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Bandi special building description works well, so I see no reason to alter it.

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Baneans Forced Memory Punishment
Bonus : Moral always stays on normal on this system.

The Banean Forced Memory Punishment is so widely feared that few would-be criminals dare to break the strict Banean legal code. This deterrent serves to create a remarkably peaceful and structured society.

Suggestions? Comments?

Having browsed this thread I think all th bonuses look good and in order. Some of the blurbs have some tiny gramatical errors in some of them, not esssential to fix but would be good.

Huntingdon thank you for reading my intel thread. If the intell is implamented they way we suggest in that thread then yes you would be able to devide the minor race bonuses down in just the way youve suggested, or keep them general if you like. However none of the devs have let me know if that idea is in or not or if intel is sorted or not.

I totally agree with changing the bonuses so that they foucs more on political, economic etc.

Seeing as the game is going to be so massive in scope, it would make sense to have as many bonus types as possible.

I do have one small comment to make though, although it isn't really important.

There is a slight leaning in the bonuses towards sabotage, instead of a balance between sabotage and espionage. (11 bonuses Sabotage, 8 Espionage)

This might seem like nit-picking, but what about altering the bonuses slightly so that the espionage bonuses are a bit larger than the Sabotage bonuses, simply because they are fewer in number.

I don't mean drastic changes, just perhaps a 5% increase or so, to maintain a balance.

Otherwise, totally agree with what you guys have done!

(Thanks for giving me loads to read by the way, I haven't checked this thread in almost three weeks! 8O )

the final list should appear in a few days along with all the bonus`s, a few changes here and there will be made but on the whole you guys have done a top job. i thank you.

Thanks for keeping this going LongShotSky. I like what you've done.

horadrim - hopefully they will be. I liked your suggestions.

matress - I think that's easily done. It does make sense.

Good news Jig! Do you want us to keep going with the building descriptions or wait until the finalised list is posted? I'm looking forward to it.

Yes top job everyone. I'll be posting the list very shortly, debating whether to copy/paste into one large thread or link to the Word document (not everyone will have Word 2000 tho, but it's colour-coded, so I might just do both). By the way, total number of races is 147

Just enough to form the United Federation of Planets then